Western Supporters Of The Palestinians And Racism: A Dialogue With the Deaf.

[Warning, by necessity this post contains links to racist material as examples. Apologies]

I should have posted this a week ago, but other matters came up.

Whilst composing part of this post in my head, I debated whether or not it should be called a dialogue with the deaf or no good deed goes unpunished.

The reason behind my thinking was, I had noticed that whenever you point out to Western supporters of the Palestinians’ cause that they have linked to, or proffered, a racist web site, then they take offence.

They don’t listen.

And before you have manage to explain why their choice of web site was racist they will invariably retort “Are you calling me an anti-Semite?”, “You just want to close down any criticism with accusations of antisemitism, don’t you?” or something similar.

They don’t even apologise or excuse themselves.

Nevertheless, recently when I pointed out to Jeremy Moodey, one of my occasional readers, that he had linked to a racist web site, I had hoped he would acknowledge his error, apologise and avoid such material in the future.

What wishful thinking on my part.

My exchanges with him proved to be a dialogue with the deaf.

Jeremy was unwilling to acknowledge that his choice of article was racist or that the site contained sizeable racist material.

So, as a public service, I am going to explain why Red Ice Creations is racist.

I shouldn’t have to explain this point, but it is apparent that many Western supporters of the Palestinians’ cause are almost completely oblivious to anti-Jewish racism.

I could explain that the Red Ice Creations pushes the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a truthful document, how it thinks that David Irving has a point. Rants on about the Power of the Rothschilds, how it compares the neo-Nazi, Ernst Zundel, to Galileo and finally spins the tale that, Hitler didn’t want world war.

The site is littered with racist filth, offensive garbage and conspiracy theories that should make any attentive person stop in their tracks.

When you look around you’ll find an article entitled “The Macabre Holocaust Numbers Game” by Henry Makow, Ph.D.

His Wikipedia entry states “Makow has voiced his anti-feminist, anti-semitic, and anti New World Order views in his books.” If there was any doubt on Makow’s views then his post, The Satanist Banker Conspiracy By Henry Makow PhD is enough for any reasoned person to see the problem.

I could explain how it founder, Henrik Palmgren, has some serious issues with Jews.

Or that Palmgren thinks Jews control Holywood:

“Statistically, according to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics roughly 0.19% of the worlds population are Jewish.

In America about 1.7% of the population are Jewish.

So why is it that in almost EVERY movie and TV show that I’ve tried watching over the last few years at least ONE (but usually more) references to this minority is made. Either to the people, the culture or something else. Why?

The jews have after all been thrown out of the majority of European countries in the past. Why is this? Can we attribute this solely to insane, irrational, unfounded anti-semitic hysteria on behalf of the christian Europeans who think that jews killed Jesus (a Jew)?

I don’t think so!”

I suspect astute readers will understand where he’s going with this, but if a site, positively filled with racist and extremist material run by someone who has serious hang-ups against Jews, isn’t enough to raise an eyebrow then what will?

I could explain of all that, but I suspect it wouldn’t register

Still pressing on, the article chosen by Jeremy is one of many similar pieces you find on sites, like Red Ice Creations, it is the soft sneer type, used to pull in readers to the hard core antisemitic filth within.

Essentially, it uses an extract from Louis Theroux On Ultra Zionists to have a go at Jewish dietary laws. It is not concerned with actions against Palestinians or human rights.

It is just about jeering at Jews. Later on in the post it links to an article ranting on about circumcision by J. Steven Svoboda.

So the thrust of Jeremy Moodey’s choice is an article, from a racist web site, which doesn’t talk about human rights or injustices done to Palestinians, instead it focuses on sneering at Jews, dietary laws and circumcision.

And that, Jeremy, is why it is racist.

When you consciously choose to attacked the sincerely held beliefs of an ethnic minority just for sport, as Red Ice Creations does, then you are crossing a red line and conniving with racism.

No, Jeremy, I don’t want to limit your freedom of speech, have as much as you want, only please avoid racist sites and don’t post from them.

It is belittling and offensive, you should know better.

About soupyone

I like soup.
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14 Responses to Western Supporters Of The Palestinians And Racism: A Dialogue With the Deaf.

  1. s4r4hbrown says:

    Hi – I thought I’d link to this blog as an example of someone who is a pro-Palestinian advocate but doesn’t (AFAIK) link to objectionable sites, or say anything objectionable himself. Partisan and selective, obviously, but that’s a different matter, I think..

    http://stevehynd.com/

  2. soupyone says:

    Agreed.

    I am simply asking those in the West that say they support the Palestinians’ cause to avoid using racist material or racist web sites. Hardly a contentious point.

    I think it does their cause no good to be associated with such naked anti-Jewish racism.

  3. SoupyOne

    I really don’t know why you are so obsessed with my postings. I note that you never actually deal with the issues at hand (the rights of the Palestinian people, the malign consequences of Christian Zionism, the way in which pro-Israel activists invoke anti-Semitism – or in your rather subtler case, hint darkly at possible anti-Semitism – to shut down debate).

    You have data-mined articles from 2006 (Protocols of Zion, Holocaust), 2007 (the Rothschilds) and 2009 (David Irving). These are anti-Semitic I agree, but:

    1. How can I possibly know about these when I link to the website? I cannot possibly data-mine every website I link to. This is impractical, and you know it. You do data-mine, after the event, with the sole purpose of discrediting the original post. All I did was link to a (non-racist) article about Christian Zionists harvesting grapes in a Jewish settler vineyard in the West Bank. I always check the home page, and if I see something anti-Semitic I exit immediately. You have not identified anything anti-Semitic on the current home page.

    2. In any case, as Stephen Sizer has frequently pointed out, to link to one article does not mean that you endorse everything else on the website. You claim that a link does effectively amount to endorsement, but only because you want to discredit the original post.

    I especially resent the suggestion that I linked to an article that was “having a go” at Jewish dietary laws. If you believe this, then the whole of Christianity (which overturned Jewish dietary laws and replaced them with the notion of salvation by faith) is anti-Semitic. The video on the webpage was actually from that paragon of anti-Semitism, the BBC! If you took a moment out from your obsessive campaign against me, you would see the point that I was making: that it is ironic that evangelical Christians who believe that Jewish dietary laws are no longer necessary under their ‘New Covenant’ should be harvesting settler grapes, convinced that they are hastening the Second Coming, but unable to enter the winery because it is kosher (a concept which their religion has rejected).

    But this is exactly the point of dispute between us. You set yourself up as the arbiter of what is anti-Semitic or racist, and then condemn anyone and everyone who has the temerity to link to a website which you consider “inappropriate”. No debate, not discussion. You are the law in this matter. The pretentious nature of your conceit is revealed by your prefacing every blog with a portentous health warning about “racist material”, as if you were about to show some ghastly child pornography. Well, presumably you should post your health warnings before any quotation from Paul’s letters to the Romans and Galatians, which offer the horrendously and graphically anti-Semitic suggestion that the true descendants of Abraham are not his ethnic descendants but those who believe in Jesus Christ? And of course, any link to any Bible quote, because it is in the same book as such “racist filth”, should be “avoided”, to coin your favourite phrase.

    Yes, this is about limiting freedom of speech, and you should have the honesty to admit so.

    Jeremy

  4. s4r4hbrown says:

    I completely agree, and it seems that too many are, if not racist, then indifferent to racism – or, more charitably, so worried about the idea they may have slipped into some error WRT antisemitism, that they simply refuse to engage with the problem head on. What struck me about the blog I linked was what seemed to me, not just an avoidance of racism, but an avoidance of tendentious, over-egged rhetoric – with the result that it’s much more effective/constructive.

  5. Soupy One says:

    Jeremy,

    It is a pity that you couldn’t do the decent thing and apologise for proffering such a link.

    Contrary to your assertion I do not wish to restrict your freedom of speech, quite the opposite.

    I would like to hear more of what you have to say on the subject, particularly racism against Jews and where you draw the line.

    As one of your followers on Twitter all I want is that you should avoid linking to racist or extremist web sites and their material.

    Again, I believe it is inappropriate for a man in your position to be linking to such questionable material, that any reasoned person would see has racism embedded in it.

  6. soupyone says:

    Please can I remind those posters stuck in the moderation queue to, er, moderate your language.

    New posters from Sweden should read this blog’s comments policy.

  7. Linking to a website with David Icke (well known publicist of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion) on the homepage is kinda naive and asking for trouble

  8. soupyone says:

    Martin,

    Spot on. Any decent person should avoid sites with David Icke’s deranged works.

    Regrettably I get the impression that Jeremy doesn’t see the problem here.

  9. Or if you do link to such sites, make clear why you’re doing it (for example, to point to examples of racist loons like Icke), and don’t pretend otherwise. In my years of blogging, I’ve only linked to one racist site inadvertently – it’s not very hard to figure out if something is racist or antisemitic.

  10. soupyone says:

    Good point, Rebecca

    I believe your contribution should be answered by Jeremy.

  11. Guys

    You may or may not believe me, but I had no idea David Icke – who was indeed on the home page of Red Ice Creations – was anti-Semitic. I had a vague memory of some eccentric ramblings from him in the 1990s about his being the son of God, but he has not figured in my consciousness since then.

    So, if I inadvertently linked to a website which featured a well-known anti-Semite (well-known to everyone but me apparently) on its home page, then I clearly regret any offence caused. Not being Jewish, I perhaps have less sensitive antennae in this regard.

    But think for a moment what you are asking me to do. I either have to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of anti-Semitism or check the credentials of every writer who features on a home page of a website which I link to. Neither is practical, as you well know. You folks are all being wise after the event. Or perhaps SoupyOne, since he is so obsessed with my Tweets, should give me a list of non-racist websites of which he approves?

    I have already noted that many Palestinian news websites, because they focus on the injustices being perpetrated by the occupying power, would almost certainly fail SoupyOne’s anti-racist smell-test, because their targets are invariably Jewish. But this is where he and I part company, since I do not accept that such sites are inherently racist. But once again he is judge and jury in this matter, telling me what I can and cannot link to.

    And no-one has yet answered my point that it is fatuous to argue that if you link to a website you endorse all its content. SoupyOne has conveniently not responded to a point I made elsewhere, which is that many of Israel’s defenders link to sympathetic articles on the Jerusalem Post website, but do they endorse the often racist comments which users of the site post against the Palestinians?

    I offer this recent Jerusalem Post article by a moderate Palestinian as an example. Scroll down and you will find the following comments from JPost website readers:

    “I would suggest you [the Palestinian author] get back to your narghilla and Ali Baba dreams”

    “If it wasn’t for oil the Arabs would still be making bricks from camel dung. Liars, cheats and thieves know no bounds for hypocrisy”

    “If it wasn’t for the discovery of oil by the British in Iraq, Iran and the Gulf…the non-creative Arabs would still be living under the primitive agrarian conditions of their ancestors.”

    “Those Arabs who call themselves Palestinians can stop trying to kill Jews – it’s part of their DNA.(Arabs,in general,seem to be addicted to killing – if not Jews than each other.)”

    Do I “advise” Israel’s supporters to stop linking to such “racist filth” as SoupyOne keeps on “advising” me? No, because I do not presume that by so linking they are endorsing its content. Judge my commitment to anti-racism by my actual links, not by content which may be several steps removed from it.

    Jeremy

    PS – I do not expect SoupyOne to answer any of the substantive points above, because he never does. He just pompously demands apologies from me and patronises me by suggesting that I cannot see racism where everyone else can.

  12. soupyone says:

    “I either have to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of anti-Semitism or check the credentials of every writer who features on a home page of a website which I link to. Neither is practical, as you well know.”

    False argument, and as a University graduate you should know better.

    University students are taught to check sources, were they to employ your arguments Jeremy it is unlikely they would receive their degrees.

    British diplomats are taught to see beyond the obvious. To watch out for hidden meanings and underhand activities.

    In the financial sector, a broader due diligence is common.

    None of this is particularly arduous for intelligent people, if they wish to call themselves antiracist.

    It’s taking care. That’s all.

    PS: I’m happy to discuss these other topics, another time, but frankly I don’t want you cynically using them as a deflection from your own mistakes.

    Please. Let’s stick to the topic of why you choose certain material from racist web sites.

    Why? Where do you get these links from?

  13. s4r4hbrown says:

    I have some sympathy for Jeremy WRT David Icke – I had never heard of him until I started reading blogs. But – someone removed a comment I had made from a blog recently because I had been searching for a particular news story and inadvertently linked to a version on a dodgy site. He explained why he had done this. I apologised for the mistake. I didn’t think any further discussion was necessary because it was perfectly easy to see the problem once it was pointed out to me. And Jeremy – WRT your comment about not letting any site critical of Israel off the hook of antisemitism – back up the thread Soupy and I both, I believe, agreed that Steve Hynd’s blog was, broadly, perfectly fine – and yet almost every post is a criticism of Israel! I don’t think anyone would blame anyone for linking to a newspaper site with dodgy comments – all the main UK sites have iffy comments – Guardian, Telegraph etc.

  14. soupyone says:

    Being ignorant is a fine excuse to use once or twice, maximum, but what after that?

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